Have you ever won a disputed charge?

[maiabee]

If you are a business owner who uses Square for collecting payments, have you ever had a disputed charge settled in your favor?

I'm asking because I've had two payments disputed recently, both of which were 100% indisputably owed payments. Services had been rendered, I had plenty of confirming evidence, including receipts, legal records, and emails in which the client acknowledge receipt of service. And yet we still lost the dispute. Square provided no documentation from the Bank as to why.

I want to know if anyone has EVER won one of these disputed charges cases.

[DinaLRosenberg]

We have won our last 2 disputes. 

[VanKalkerFarms · Accepted solution]

The biggest issue is Square has no power, nor does any CC processor, it is completely up to the card-issuing bank.  To you, it is Square's fault, but it really is just the system.  That said I have only had 1 dispute in 28 years of taking CC and it was with Square about 8 years ago. We did win by providing the signed receipt, pictures from cameras of the client at checkout, and pictures of an employee helping load the product into the customer's car with license plates visible.  But I have seen clients lose even with the same or more evidence. Depending on the amount you can go to small claims court if you believe you have enough evidence.  It really is a shame it is so heavily in the customer's favor.

[maiabee]

I do understand Square does not make the decisions. However, I have asked Square to provide me with a record of their exchanges with the bank on my behalf and they would not do so. This is problematic. How do I even know I was appropriately represented by Square? Why won't they provide that info? I don't think it is as simple as "Square has no power." It is more likely that these companies (Square, other CC processors, and Banks) have collectively established rules to protect all of them. The banks are incentivized to rule in favor of their card holders and Square is incentivized by the banks (Square's *actual* customer) to provide a barrier between them and the vendor who ends up bearing the entire cost when card holders steal from them. 

[Jessaharie]

I have recently been having a issue with disputes I actually did win one in my favor and then the other one I didn't. They take the money out of your account before the decision is even made 

[DaveH5050]

Our nail salon has been using Square since early 2020. In that time, we've had maybe 8 or 9 disputed credit card payments. I lost the first couple but then starting adding this language to the bottom of every CC receipt: 

-- Please inform manager of any pre-existing health issues prior to receiving services. Signature attests customer has reviewed charges and agrees to pay the amount shown on this receipt. Please contact us at xxx-xxx-xxxx if any questions, thanks. --

We just won our last disputed charge - a woman who came in with her daughter who looked to be about 6 or 7 years old - and both got acrylic nails with designs, which are not cheap. We don't recommend kids getting long acrylic nails because they are very active and don't know to protect the nails from damage, so generally they only last a few days. Gel or dip powder nails cut on the short side are a much better choice, and merely shaping the nail and putting on polish is the best choice, but apparently the daughter wanted long, glamorous nails just like mommy was getting.

I have a hi-res camera system with a 16TB storage capacity DVR in the salon, after learning the hard way that many CC disputes happen at least a month to 6 weeks after the service, when the customer gets the CC bill and experiences buyer's remorse, and decides to cut expenses after the fact. I provided video of the daughter getting her nails done at one manicure station while the mom was getting hers done nearby, along with a brief explanation as to why the daughter's was a bad idea, but the customer's choice. We do have signs about security video recording posted all over the salon and the front door, by the way. Along with the sales receipt and a copy of the salon's customer satisfaction policies (basically notifying the customer that if any disputes or problems are noted, to contact the manager within 10 days and we will fix the issue or refund the money), that has proven useful for winning the disputes. 

The bit about pre-existing health issues was added because we occasionally get diabetics in who request pedicures, and have been sued a couple of times. Diabetics are supposed to visit a podiatrist (foot doctor), not a nail salon, due to the risk of a skin cut or abrasion on their feet causing an infection due to poor circulation. Most diabetics are told that by their doctor, but some choose to ignore it because a nail salon is usually far cheaper and more pleasant than a trip to the doctor's office.

[alexandriak]

I've won several disputes over the years between square and paypal. The square ones were much easier in all honesty. 

[P_Electrolysis]

No. Regardless of the amount of proof, including multiple hard signatures from clients, Square does NOT have its client's backs.  If the bank of the client denies the dispute (they always do), the business owner is the one getting taken.  Square offers no protections. 

[maiabee]

Yes, this is my experience. The part that is most offensive is the request for all that info. I have clients fill out multiple forms including express acknowledgment of cancellation policy, etc. My scheduling app (owned by Square) sends out multiple emails and tracks if and when they are opened, etc. It takes time to format all that information to submit for dispute challenge. I've done it in a few times now, but never again. After the last failed dispute, in which the client received services and even got a legally required medical record of the appointment, I still lost. What an utter waste of my time. It makes me angry and every time I think about it, I consider switching cc processors.

[Summer2024]

Hi there, @P_Electrolysis and @maiabee 👋

@VANKALKERFARMS states it best here. Square is not the one who decides who wins or loses a dispute. 

All of the information provided to Square is provided to the card-issuing bank. The card-issuing bank is who decides. 

This is the same process that every credit card processor has and it all works the same way. 

I do wish things were different in the way that this process works. Maybe something will change in the future with the process. But for right now, it is all up to the card-issuing bank the customer uses. 

[P_Electrolysis]

As a customer of Square, if we provide all the proof necessary to show the charge was legitimate, it is my opinion Square should take the liability and risk.   Maybe they could stop accepting these banks/cards that frequently side against the proof of service.  

[alexandriak]

You realize that would be all cards right? You can typically appeal these decisions and going straight to the source in those cases may get your further. 

[alexandriak]

You also have the option if the credit card company/bank sides with the customer to take the customer to small claims court for fraud/theft of services. 

[Summer2024]

@P_Electrolysis - I hear you. I will definitely provide this feedback to our teams as well. This is an ongoing conversation on how we can do better with issues like this.

[maiabee]

Thank you for this. This is a great comment.

[VanKalkerFarms]

So a credit card processor, the middle man in the transaction, is going to take on all the risk of a fraud.  That's not going to happen with any Processor unless they are upping their fees to cover losses.

[maiabee]

How do I know Square even provides that info to the credit card company? I don't. Square will not supply any records of their interactions with the banks on my behalf. I have asked for that info and been denied. Why do I not have the option of addressing the bank directly myself? Personally, this seems more like the bank is being protected by Square. I should have a right to know exactly how Square is "representing me".

[P_Electrolysis]

Exact same experience.  It takes a lot of time to procure all of our proof and to know Square doesn't have our back is incredibly frustrating. I've talked with a few people and they've had good luck with PayPal and even Stripe. 

[alexandriak]

I've had more luck with Square than I have had with PayPal. 


At the end of the day the card holders bank is usually going to side with their customer because it's their customer. Square doesn't have a say in it, so I'm curious what you would like Square to do exactly? The decision isn't being made by them.

[P_Electrolysis]

The decision not to support their customer is being made by them.  If I've provided all the proof required and my payment is still denied, I would expect Square to uphold the amount (maybe up to a certain amount) and take it up with the original card issuer.  So, if Visa, or MC, or whatever, repeatedly upholds their customer's dispute even when presented with evidence to the contrary, maybe Square needs to reevaluate who they do business with.  The small business owner must re-evaluate who they do business with if they can legally provide service and not get paid for it.  

[DaveH5050]

Well, for one thing - Square could provide some information on the won/loss percentage with the various banks, or the large ones anyway, like Wells Fargo, Bank of America, etc etc. Then the business could decide for themselves whether to accept those bank cards from the customer.

On the other side of the coin, I disputed a charge from a Hawaiian tour operator, for $13K or so, last Christmas for a 2 week family vacation in Hawaii. Luckily I was smart enough to capture all the texts between myself and the tour operator, which showed that one of the tours I paid for wasn't open on Christmas Day, along with many other changes from the original itinerary and hotel reservations (5-star down to 3 star in some cases). Something the tour operator should have known, seeing as it was their own tour. Their own website prominently featured the language "full refund" if canceled a certain time period before the scheduled tour, which I did, but the operator claimed it was actually just a credit good for a year, at non-peak seasons to boot. Of course, Christmas is a peak season, so even the credit was for non-equivalent service. 

Anyway, my bank considered the evidence, and I got the full amount credited back.