The Generation Gap and how it affects your business

[CareyJo]

We have every age range in Square... from Baby Boomers on down to Gen Z.  Where do you fit in? 

I prefer a paper schedule.  I only run about 40% of my life in digital format.  I still use recipe books.  I have saved phone books because online sources don't have all of the same information anymore.  I plan my business and my life around each other.  Early to bed, early to rise.

Baby Boomer?  Nope.  Gen X.

After some conversations with @Lovewell and @MudFire_Dex, I've pondered this generation gap even more and it's got me thinking - how does this gap affect our businesses?  In what way are you accommodating for these differences?  What age group does your business primarily target?  Are you wanting to change it?

Do you see it in the types of customers you have?  The frequency in their shopping habits or their typical purchases?  Is your business influenced by one age group more than another?

What have you studied about your prime clientele and the demographics of your business, to effectively be successful with all the age ranges?  How do you use that information and put it to good use, to grow or increase your business?  What successes can you share here that may help someone else who's looking for answers?

Conversely, if you're struggling to grow your business with a particular age group, tell us what your frustrations are, so we can work on it with you!

[rtfulk]

We are 60 years old, so we can be considered Baby Boomers. My wife prefers physical documents, while I prefer digital ones. I explain to her that digital documents are always accessible, while physical ones require physical carrying.

Since we sell children’s clothing, our customers are predominantly female from the 20s and up. However, we have made a slight change and have added more clothing  designs featuring dads and grandpas. This strategy has attracted more male shoppers.

We have discovered that $20 is the ideal price point for sales. The majority of our items are priced between $19.99 and $21.99. While we do have some items priced lower and higher, this price range has proven to be successful. 

[CareyJo]

I just turned 57, so oh-so-close to being a Boomer.  I'm glad to hear that you've added in the male component.  My husband would love it because being a grampa means the world to him!  He's constantly spoiling them - more than I do!!!  He HAD to go shopping on the way to the hospital when the first one was born!  And I thought I was bad!!

[Lovewell]

LOVE THIS. 

Millennial here (young millennial often referred to as a zillenial because I was born in 1995 and that’s the end of millennials) while my sister was born in 1983 which is the start of millennials and end of gen x! 

So we actually have quite an age gap running the business together actually which people find really interesting! 

Customers: 

I have desired since before we had the shop to be a place for ALL ages. No cool kids club. Only a coffee shop for people my age etc. no thank you. 

So we’ve got babies to 90 year olds! I really

enjoy chatting with those other than me. Ive

always had a deep respect for those who have experienced so much life. Love

their stories. I feel like many generations (baby boomers and older) get kind of… overlooked and tossed aside? And I’m not about that life. Everyone and every generation brings incredible and much needed value to our lives and world! 

ANYWAY- that’s my soap box. 

as for the team- the gen z stumps me sometimes 😂 but they teach me SO much. They crack me up. They bring this life that is so needed. They help me not to take like so seriously. 

Internally I’m 80 years old. Give me paper. 
BUT the square team app with scheduling is a life changer and I will NEVER print another shop schedule again. 

but am I writing my personal schedule down on a planner? You betcha! 

We offer all the things for coffee with zero judgement. You like it black? Awesome. You want something sweet and fun? Let’s do it. 

Coffee is such a great business for reaching all the people! 

[CareyJo]

Yes, Paper!!!  Love it!!  I'm so excited by this!  My sister would call you an "old soul" because you're 80 on the inside.  I know a few people this way.  You're doing a great job!  Keep it up!!

[CSprink]

We have a Mobility retail location which has a generally older demographic. We sell, service, rent and install mobility equipment like scooters, lift chairs, stair lifts and ramps. From a technology standpoint, Square simplifies our communications and makes it easier for individuals and care givers to make an informed decision. For example, using Square Estimates, we are able to provide clients different packages and they can easily select the one that makes the most sense. 

Transacting with Square for retail is super easy. Our older clients tap to pay as easily as the 50 year old customer. We do see many of our clients want paper receipts more often, but even then, most have email and are ok with that format as well.

Marketing. This one is tricky as our clients range from 14 year olds who need a knee scooter rental to son's and daughter's helping to get Mom's house more accessible, to Parkinson's patients. We market differently to our rental business vs our home access business. Post cards and newspaper is still effective for the 65+ crowd and Google and Social Media advertising covers the younger groups. But again, the older crowd is more tech savvy when it comes to researching and purchasing. Google maps works for most clients, but other want to drive here by landmarks; just have to be adaptable to meet each person where they are comfortable.

[MudFire_Dex]

We span 18 - 75 years old in our membership and classes and our staff is in the 18 to 35 year old range. A ceramic studio makes for a lot of intergenerational friendships, but I've been burned a little by having friendships with folks who have lived enough life yet if you know what I mean so I keep my relationships here a little lighter now. Spending so much time here makes that a challenge because you just get incorporated into someone's life in a different way but a positive change for us has been removing our kitchen and formalizing it as a break room (with air fryer and microwave instead of a full chef's kitchen). This means I am not in a head of household role feeding those around me which is helpful to drawing better boundaries.

We use a fair amount of tech - Acuity, Square, Slack, Discord - at the request of staff and membership. I still like a Google Doc, Excel Spreadsheet, etc and do some paper flow being a Gen X as well. I like to do math and chemistry formulations on paper and also in a spreadsheet. I love an email but I am brief, direct, and widely criticized for a lack of emoji use. A lot of people want us to text - I am so reluctant to do to that as I truly hate my phone but on the goals list is a phone that I don't have to look at and Square Marketing and enabling text for Acuity - sigh....

[CareyJo]

So....

I just came home from the 2nd annual Women in Business Summit here in MT.  It's a huge two day event.  We had a lot of local women but we also had some well known speakers from out of state that work on a national level.  Most of the summit was stories from them of how they got where they are and what they've learned along the way.  However, we did have break-out sessions and I thought it was so ironic that one of them was titled "The Impact of Millennials on the Workplace", so naturally, I just had to attend.

There were three women on the panel, one at the top end of the M gen and referred to herself as a geriatric M because she feels more like a Gen X, one at the bottom of it, barely making the cut and one in the middle.  I asked the question that I've asked here - is this an area (geographic) specific problem or just a misunderstanding between generations?  I actually got the answer that I noted in my thread - in MT it is literally different simply because of where we live.  Our culture here plays 100% in how life is lived, even in these generations.

The youngest of those three panelists came from Boston to MT just under a year ago and stated that she sees a huge difference here vs there.  She agrees that where we live has an impact on how their generation and Gen Z behave.  The amount of conveniences in the big cities (that we don't have) gives them the advantage to do even more on their phones, i.e. have food delivered, groceries delivered, etc.  This enables them to avoid people.  Because they literally have not lived a life void of technology like we have, they don't know how to function without it.  I heard a number of years ago that children in Gen Alpha are actually being born with different brains than us and are literally born with the ability to use technology by the age of 1.5 without any training because human brains are adapting over time to societal changes.  That's crazy!  They can't read but they can fully operate a smart phone!

I mentioned to the panel that I've been having discussions with other business owners about how to tackle issues with these working gens and how to get them to want to pay attention to the world around them and get off their phones and actually become engaged humans.  They all agreed that being in MT and being forced to be hands on because our culture is so different, has a great impact.

During one of the other speaker's talks, she addressed what the current trends have been in place since Covid and how our world AND the gens have adapted.  During Covid, we were taught to avoid, separate, isolate and ignore other humans.  The impact that had on the younger gens is huge because they were so ingrained in their phones and being isolated that they didn't have the desire to reintegrate into society, YET they are STARVING for human connection and are the loneliest generation.  The problem lies in that they go to their phones for all sources of information.  When they don't have an answer, they Google it or YouTube it instead of asking another human.  They are finally beginning to figure out that they need to interact with other people and be out in public but they almost don't know how to do that.  For a lot of the Gen Z, this is a huge problem because during Covid their brains were not fully developed and they didn't get that final piece of social experience to help them come back.  We all already had that, so it was obvious to us.  It wasn't to them.  Because M's like living the disposable life and digital makes things so easy to be lazy and not put out effort, they don't naturally have the desire to work or contribute to society.  The youngest on the panel says it drives her crazy because she's not like them and has always had a desire to work and contribute.  She saw it everyday in Boston.

The lack of desire that we mentioned in another conversation, is prevalent because they view the work-life balance completely different than we do.  We see them as the two circles in the Venn Diagram and try to balance in the middle.  They don't.  They see them as two circles, one inside the other.  Life and family is number one to them and usurps all things.  Yet, in their minds, there is no definition to the work circle, it just simply covers everything.  They will leave a job without care because family/life comes first to them.  That's why working more than eight hours for them is often so difficult.  They should be at home/living their life, not working.  There is no value in contributing to them.  They don't understand the term retirement.  To them, they will work until they die, so work should be fluid.  When they work and how often, should determined by them, not their employer.  When we put expectations on them like a set schedule and number of hours per week, they feel confined and controlled.  They balk at the system.  They don't believe that they will ever retire, so work is secondary to everything.

These ladies said that when it comes to M's and Gen Z, if they give them a list of tasks to be completed and a time frame to get them done, instead of a set of hours each day or week, they excel.  They are far more successful in the workplace, contributing to their team and more effective workers if they have the ability to decide for themselves when/how much they work each week.  I realize this can't always be an option but these businesses are very large companies, one of them a nationwide company and all of them operating in MT and in our largest cities.  (One of them is 200k+ and the other is roughly 90k+) It's working for them.  They have far less issues with these employees and work is getting done.  They also noted conversely, that any employee over the age of 55 is working harder, no matter their physical limitations, and determined to keep moving and doing.  This is clearly from how Gen X and Baby Boomers were raised - our work ethic was passed on to us by those that worked the hardest.  That brought me back to the question that I've asked in the past - where did we fail as Gen Xer's raising the M's and Gen Z's?  How did so few of them not receive that same ethic?  The answer I got was that we didn't want our kids to have as many struggles as we did, so we became laxed.  I think my husband and I are some of the few who were not laxed on our kids...

I'm glad to hear that you have figured out a way to set a boundary and distinguish yourself from them, for their benefit.  I think that's a great first step.  Maybe in some fashion, you can define a set of expectations that they can meet with less rigid boundaries that will enable them to feel that freedom that they're seeking.  The speaker was saying that when we focus on working with these people in their way instead of trying to conform them to ours, they will feel a sense of belonging that they so deeply crave yet don't know how to express.  Maybe have an after-hours meeting with them and ask questions.  Ask them what they want and need to feel like they belong and can be successful.

All in all, these two sessions were so educational for me and I hope that this information is helpful to you and others as well.

[MudFire_Dex]

That forum sounds amazing.

I am to a frustration point here and am close to the point of training people outside of the field to work here and reduce our mentorship focus.

I've always run MudFire with the intent of giving knowledge beyond what is earned as pay for those who want to start their own ceramic business - we teach everything for no cost from learning about making the work, troubleshooting forms and functions to taxes, web design and marketing/booth display etc. I have always wanted to give out of proportion to provide level footing especially for women, BIPOC and LGBTQ populations. That used to be something that was deeply valued and respected by earlier iterations of staff - some of whom are teaching ceramics or operating studios around the world. We recently had a former staffer visit and she's running her own studio teaching classes in the UK using our model. Since the pandemic though, we've encountered a shift where even all of this isn't enough. 

The independent working style is still kind of a struggle here. We adapted our model just before the pandemic and again last year to try to adapt to the changes our Millennial and Gen Z staffers needed and wanted as you found in the forum and listening to the wisdom of larger companies. Only 2 of our 20 staffers are making and selling ceramic work because they others won't put in the time needed beyond their shifts. 

At our business - each person works a static 8 hour a WEEK shift split into two 4-hour blocks (because we can't get buy in for a full 8 hours even with lunch/breaks). This shift is paid and is what is required to gain access to the studio with a key so 24/7 to create their own work at any rate they choose. It is a participation in our greater membership community of 275 people. Each person also has 2 shift mates to share the task burden to make sure there is a lot of down time on shift. We butt up against people that want the same kind of perks a 40-hour work week has as far as time off and absences which is very difficult for us to manage. They treat it completely casually. They get access to all of the firings and glazes that members have just for working the shift. 

The additional earning opportunity here is to teach one-time or date night classes paid by the head and collect tips from the customers. That income varies from $28-65 an hour and the work is self-scheduled and at each person's own pace within a loose 6-week deadline. This is still a struggle. When I don't micromanage, they can't meet that deadline of finishing the work even making far above an average wage. They also frequently self-sabotage pulling out of classes not teaching or taking months of a break from classes citing that they don't like "people" which checks out from the above info from the forum. If 4-5 classes are taught each week (about 16-20 hours of work all inclusive) take home checks equal $35-42K last year for working 23-28 hours a week total including the 8 hours they have to work to be here at all. 

Everything you said is true - the shift here started with COVID and they are lonely, and wanting connection, and absolutely prioritizing activities outside of work (even the employees who want to make ceramic work for a living). They see a lot of influencer culture and people who are opening packages all day, and going on trips, and they want that - they want their pottery to "go viral" (I pointed out that if it did, they would still have to make the work). I read an article a few months ago that 'being an influencer' is now a top job "want" when kids are asked what they want to do when they grow up. 

I just find it hard to relate to the idea of outside life being so much more important than work. I do have the luxury of working with my wife - I don't have kids (always dogs though) and don't have as much connection to family as the average person who hasn't been isolated for political (queer) reasons, so I always try to temper my responses because I know I lack those connections and familial obligations to extended family and siblings. 

I love being a business owner and find a lot of joy in work - from mundane tasks through higher level business planning, communications, and wish I could tap into a way that I feel like helps my Gen Z people see that work can be the overlapping diagram @CareyJo is talking about and that there is a lot of joy, connection, pride to be found in establishing responsibility and acumen in your field. My Gen X heart breaks for them on that. It is the most Gen X thing I can think of to be the CEO instead of working for the CEO and I am trying to provide the foundation for them to be their OWN small business. 

I think this topic is so so so important and really love talking to all of you about this issue. * Edit - we also offer office hours - ask for feedback - buy snacks and have meetings both individual and group to address issues and troubleshoot together.

[CareyJo]

The whole time I was reading your response all I could say was OMG!  This is mind BOGGLING!!!  I'm with you - I don't get it.  They crave connection yet won't connect.  They want to be famous but they won't work for it.  And you're right - our generation is all about doing the work in order to get something.  I can't believe that being an influencer is something to attain 'when they grow up'... dude!!  You're already grown!!!!  I just keep smacking my head here!  You give them all of those beneies and they see those things as expectations and then complain about 8 hours... I am so deeply sorry for this struggle you are dealing with.  I wish I had answers.  I wish we knew how to solve this problem globally.  You're right to say that if our parents had acted the way they did with us back when, they'd be banished today but I'm seriously thinkin' this generation needs a good ol' fashioned spanking!  I cannot help but wonder how much of their behavior has stemmed from not having a harsh enough reality to being an adult and/or no consequences growing up.  I don't think that there's anything you can do to motivate them.  They do not see the value that you've handed them or what it truly means to be a business owner.  I think that no matter what you offer them by way of education for these things, will just yield the deer in the headlight look.  Our youngest will be 24 in May.  We stopped helping him when he chose to quit college.  We've offered guidance.  We've taught him how to work hard and pay his way, support his family.  Now that he chooses to do nothing, we've walked away.  We're waiting for him to REALLY hit bottom, not just think he has.

[Lovewell]

You are such a rockstar! Truly love your insights. 

We may be young but we were raised with blue collar dads. Our father who is 71 has yet to retire. He works harder and faster than some 20

somethings that try to work for him (he’s a general contractor)

So thankful we were raised with the example of hard work. If you don’t work you don’t get paid. Somedays you are tired and you still have to work. Sick? Still gotta

work. 

That is not quite how everyone was raised anymore

though! So navigating that is so interesting. 

[Lovewell]

Thank you so much for diving into the convo. 

Technically we’re millennials and I used to get SO upset when I was a teen when I felt like the generations above me looked down upon me because I’m a “millennial” 

Then I became a business owner and employed Gen z employees and was like oh my 

god this is why they said all those things about me 😂 

BUT I do try and be mindful that I really did feel so frustrated to be “othered” and in my case I desired to prove everyone wrong. Be different. Work harder. Not be the stereo type! Which I think helped a lot. 

So I’m really working on my compassion and finding the gold in them. Using their skills to teach me new things. We’re always learning and we’ve never fully “arrived” 

What a wild world we live in!
Gen z IS lonely. So we’ve made it our mission to really encourage our staffs passions. To SEE them. To lead by example. 

[Lovewell]

Actually screenshotted a part of your post! 

We have learned this! Our youngest team member is 19 and our oldest is aside from us 33. We’ve had as young as age 16 working for us! 

Our leadership have learned that you must clearly outline tasks that need to be completed and when (also no one wears a watch so time management is almost non existent) otherwise there isn’t much self starting or the ability to prioritize. 

even some of my

leadership are Gen z and I didn’t even think that I should give those weekly reminders to get them done. I think it’s obvious because it’s the same thing every week but even just a visual reminder for them will motivate them to get it done! 

[CareyJo]

Wow! Well... when you find talent, build on it!

[DinaLRosenberg]

I'm GenX and I have to ask, "did we fail".. because from my perspective as someone who has been employed and who has been the employer- I think teaching our kids to see work as secondary is a GOOD thing. What we do shouldn't be most important nor the definer of who we are as people. It's how we live.

I've been let go a few times in my life- none of which were for performance. Stocks not performing? Your job is gone. Automation/technology/AI? Your job is gone. It's hard to want to work hard when the reciprocal agreement of the boomer generation is gone (or only will exist for the boomers, and then be gone).

As a GenX'er I don't believe I'll ever retire either. My financial advisor cringes when I tell her my retirement plan is to drop dead at my desk. My mantra is "no one is coming to save you" so I might as well have fun and do what I can for who I can while I am able to.

[CareyJo]

Interesting perspective from a GenX.  I knew you were before this, but it does surprise me a little that you think that way.  So few people in our gen don't.  It was only after living for so many years that I learned that living needs to come first and not work.  When I was young and poor, I ate on whatever was leftover after the bills were paid, which wasn't much, even in the 80's.  Our mentality shifts as we age...

[DinaLRosenberg]

I think about this a lot. I'm a GenXer turning 50 this year. When I tell that to people their mouth hangs open. I don't think it's all about looks- I think it's really about my personality. I'm open to learning. I'm not "stuck in my ways".. I'm pretty good technologically (although I'm not downloading to spreadsheets and what not like some of the other tech superstars on here). I love social media and leaning into the new stuff.. but most importantly I LOVE learning from those that work with me.. 

We have all ages: from late teens to mid thirties and they are all so different! Their views on life, work, purpose, culture... do we all vibe or agree on it all? Of course not. I love telling them my early working horror stories from the late 90s.. their mouths hang open! The way we were spoken to, people would be "cancelled" these days (and rightfully so).

Our customers are also all over the place... super young to mature we get 'em all and because our staff is so diverse, we cater to them all very well.

The mission is to leave people better than when we found them- so ultimately age doesn't matter.. we just want 'em to feel good.

[CareyJo]

People don't believe that I'm almost 60 and have 16 grandkids... I hear ya!  Reaching that peak is nice!  You'll enjoy it!!

I'm of the same mindset - we're never too old to learn!  We learn something new every day, if we just stay open to it!  I'm actually really good at tech and the only time I call my bro-in-law is when I can't fix it myself.  He's an IT guy who went to school for it.

I used to love messing with our kids and talking about stuff from the 80's that they couldn't fathom.... remember that video of 2000's kids watching a video of things from the 80's and not knowing what they are?  Hysterical!

[Donnie-M]

@CareyJo Fighting progress will kill you.  I have watched the customer demographic change over the past 10 years.  Kiosk ordering, online ordering, cashless, are all the majority now.  My older customers are definitely missing the interaction and we fill in that gap.  But most business' don't.

From a workforce standpoint, I have one employee that can be replaced with a kiosk and ai phone ordering....I have some trouble with my older employees understanding the algorithm to trouble shoot a register or KDS.  If I can get them to just turn it on and off without just making the screen go black is a tough task.

[CareyJo]

I'm only fighting progress to a certain extent... I definitely know that things have changed.  I will say though, that in MT that we probably have less than 5% of businesses statewide that are pushing to avoid customers.  Everyone has the cashless options of course but Taco Bell is the only business in MT that is pushing customers to either purchase at a kiosk or online.  We still have drive throughs open, so if I'm desperate enough to give them money, I go that route because I refuse to be an anti-human customer.

Our population as a state is incredibly small and our businesses are mostly locally owned, human centric.  I'm sure it is tough to get older employees to work with tech.  Our baby boomer parents don't tech well at all, so I totally get it.  I just hope that businesses don't go with the masses and think that Gen Z is the only customer they need to worry about, they will do themselves a huge disservice.  I hope that businesses as a whole can adapt to take care of all customers, no matter what that looks like, without pushing customers out the door for not complying.  I have stopped going to Taco Bell simply because they disregard me as a valuable customer.  They no longer make real food like they used to anyway but their rude employees telling me I have to think and act like a Gen Z who can't breathe without a phone in my hand, is something I can do without.  Just sayin'....

[Lovewell]

We love square online ordering for pick up! However, over my actual dead body for using a kiosk in our coffee shop. 

I avoid self check out. The heart of our shop is to foster human to human connection. To remind people they are seen, loved, and welcomed. 

There is nothing worse than walking into somewhere that before I see a human smiling at me (heck even frowning at me) I see a screen. 

Humans are quite literally irreplaceable. 
 I also feel kiosks change the whole dynamic of a space and customer service experience. We won’t teach someone excellent customer service if they forget to even see a human because they assume the screen will take care of it. 

Where we live people actively walk right past them because no one wants to deal with a computer. 

If it works for you all- more power to you! 
But removing the beauty of human interaction is not progress in our eyes.